Democrats Face Decision Day in Florida, Michigan
Florida and Michigan. Michigan and Florida.
For weeks now, these two states - whose delegates have not been counted as a result of their decision to move up their Democratic primaries against the wishes/rules of the national committee - have been in the news almost as much as Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton themselves.
Today, though, a decision** will finally come down on how to seat the uncounted delegates in those regions. Democratic activists are holding a hearing on the issue as we write this.
Clinton’s campaign, of course, is calling for the results of the states’ primaries to be honored and the delegates awarded. Such an approach would help her chip away at Obama’s lead in pledged delegates because she handily won both states, although there are two problems with this argument:
- Obama did not campaign in Florida in January, leading to a Clinton victory that was more a cause of name recognition than an actual democratic election process;
- Obama’s name was not even on the ballot in Michigan; moreover, 40% of voters actually favored no candidate at all (aka “Uncommitted“) over Hillary. Seriously. Think about that for a moment.
Dozens of sign-toting, chanting protesters gathered outside the Marriott Wardman Park Hotel, the site of Saturday’s events, to have their say on what the decision should be.
The Democratic National Committee’s Rules and Bylaws panel met behind closed doors for five hours Friday night, emerging at 1:30 a.m. Saturday without an agreement.
“It was a full discussion,” said Harold Ickes, a DNC rules committee member from the District of Columbia who supports Clinton. “I think there was some agreement on some issues and still some disagreements on others.”
The debate is continued to rage on throughout the day, as the rules committee will address two main issues at the hearing: how many delegates each state is allowed and how those delegates will be allocated between the two candidates.
A question that needs to be asked, however, is: will the results change the story?
** UPDATE: The committee agreed Saturday evening on a compromise to seat Michigan and Florida delegates with half-votes after Obama and Clinton failed to get enough support to force their positions through.
Harold Ickes informed the committee that Clinton had instructed him to reserve her right to appeal the matter to the Democrats’ credentials committee, which could potentially drag the issue to the party’s convention in August.
“There’s been a lot of talk about party unity — let’s all come together, and put our arms around each other,” said Ickes, who is also a member of the Rules Committee that approved the deal. “I submit to you ladies and gentlemen, hijacking four delegates … is not a good way to start down the path of party unity.”
Nor is pretending that you care about democracy, Clinton camp, when you just care about giving your candidate a modicum of a chance to argue her case to superdelegates. Remember:
Hillary Clinton herself pledged to NOT seat Florida and Michigan delegates in September 2007. What changed since then? Not the democratic process. Just her chances of winning the nomination
NATIONAL
May 31st, 2008 at 11:46 am
Why can’t we just split the delegates 50/50 between both camps in the Democratic party? Wouldn’t that be fair for everyone? Besides, giving Clinton all of the rewards and none to Obama is unfair anyways because the votes in both Michigan and Florida are inconsistant. The votes in Florida are incosistant because Obama and Clinton couldn’t campaign there due to party rules. As a result, the people in Florida could only base their votes on recognition [most of that recognition was hogged by Clinton anyways]. And the votes in Michigan are inconsistant as well because only Hilary’s name was on their ballot and many people couldn’t vote for Obama anyways.
And yet Clinton wants the vote to be counted as is considering the inconsistencies? Clinton supporters say that Obama is being unfair? Why don’t they look at Clinton for a change? I’m an Obama supporter and I would’ve voted for Clinton had she played by the rules as well. She even went as far as trying to manipulate the rules for the rest of the race by suggesting that Obama’s caucases not be counted. Who’s being unfair now?
Considering what I have seen and learned in the past decade, a 50/50 distribution for both camps should be considered since that is universally seen as fair [like two lottery winners earning 50% of the reward].
May 31st, 2008 at 11:53 am
To correct the facts and perception:
First,Senator Obama did campaign in Florida through his TV commercial spots; Senator Clinton did not campaign, yet won the primarily handily. The claim that name recognition had something to do with that is correct, and is due to the fact that Senator Clinton is a much more accomplished and experienced statesman than is Senator Obama, who has had a brief and undistinguished political career to date.
Second, Senator Obama withdrew his name from the Michigan ballot, a calculated strategy to ensure that Michigan’s primary would be declared flawed in case the DNC later reconsidered allowing the delegates to be seated because, as the speculation goes, he knew he could not win. There were no rules that required Obam to withdraw his name, so there is no other explanation. Therefore, there is no evidence that voters meant to vote for him when they voted for “uncommitted.” The DNC cannot now arbitrarily assign uncommitted votes to Senator Obama.
I am in favor of all the delegates being seated in both states, with the Hillary’s votes being allocated to her, Obama’s votes being allocated to him, but the uncommitted votes in Michigan being allocted to neither.
The Obama camp may scream “unfair,” but there have been many unfair aspects to this Primary season, legal or not, such as the chaotic and unequal manner in which they are conducted. There is much room for unfair manipulation.
The DNC has dug this hole and they have to proceed in a manner that is fair to the voters and to the candidates.
May 31st, 2008 at 11:59 am
They cannot selectively talk about precedence.
Mr. Steed said it is sets a precedence because Obama took out his name voluntarily.
It is true but the argument is selective by nature.
It is also true that it was official that the votes will not be counted.
So,it sets a precedence too.
Obama & others took their names out because it was an official notification that the votes will not be counted
Like wise there could arise many other precedence besides the aforementioned, if Obama is now penalized for not participating after the official notification.
They all ran, lost and dropped under a different rule.
So everyone who who ran, lost and will lose should be subject to the same rules.
Precedence argument should not be used selectively, if there are more than one.
The bottom line is the decision should not favor or be against one group of voters, under the circumstances, because the primary was totally messed up.
And the fact, Nobody can prove it with hard evidence which side won.
May 31st, 2008 at 12:08 pm
Oh boy they worked all night & still couldn’t come up with a solution? What the hell.!!!! It would have taken me 5 minutes.
They agreed that the votes wouldn’t count. The people in Mi & Fla. knew that. I’m old & I knew that, so I decided I’d wait for November. (Beside’s I’d never have voted for Billary) Now what is the big problem? DNC come out & tell them, tough S*it, they are “not” going to count. Shut up and go home!!!!! Stand up to the Clintons.
Mad gramma
Michigan
May 31st, 2008 at 12:23 pm
To Jeanne:
First, you are making an assumption that Obama’s move to remove his name was some ‘forward looking strategy’ to guarantee the results would be invalidated. You have no idea what his intentions were.
However, if one looks at what the *candidates agreed to to*, then one can make a reasonable presumption - Both Edwards and Obama removed their names (so it wasn’t a single-handed strategy by Obama), *because they agreed to do so*. There is a youtube video showing Clinton explaining why she didn’t remove her name, whereupon she states that “we all know that the results won’t count anyway”.
So, one can turn your argument around and say that the reason she didn’t take her name off the ballot was a *calculated strategy* to fall back upon if she were to not end up with enough delegates to sew up the nomination.
Furthermore, the statement of ‘count all votes’ is obviously simply an emotional argument intended to sway the weak-minded. If one wants to count all votes, one would want to count those who wanted to vote for another candidate but *couldn’t*. After all, using Clinton’s argument, it was not the *voter’s* fault they couldn’t vote for Obama - just as it was not their fault the vote was invalid.
It was Clinton who nixed a revote allowing new registrations - it was Clinton who wanted to require only *currently* registered voters could vote (meaning, those who had already voted). It was Clinton who nixed the option of a caucus when it became financially unfeasible to have a new primary.
Finally - the real issue here is not Clinton or Obama. It is about the Democratic party having rules, which need to be followed. If FL and MI don’t have to follow them, then which states do? None? If they don’t have to follow the rules about primary dates, then are there other rules that don’t have to be followed?
It is clear that the *state* party needs to be punished, not the candidates. However, if you allow all delegates to be seated asis, then the party essentially goes unpunished. Proper punishments include fines and/or loss of privileges. The latter is what the DNC is, and has been, proposing. That was known as far back as 2003 when Terry McAuliff was the DNC chairman and he threatened MI and FL with exactly the same thing then. Interestingly, you know which campaign he works for now and what ’solution’ he favors.
My question to all Democrats: If a self-serving Bush adminstration is reprehensible, then what would a self-serving Clinton administration be?
May 31st, 2008 at 12:26 pm
I live in Michigan and I voted uncommitted because Obama’s name was not on the ballot and I know of several voters who didn’t bother to vote because Obama was not on the ballot. I think it is outrageous that Hillary thinks her michigan votes should count. Truth be told if the Obama campain would have been functioning in Michigan she would have lost the state entirely. Go home Hillary and quit trying to change the rules post-facto. We’ve already had a president that does that. We need real change in Washington and Obama is the one to deliver it.
May 31st, 2008 at 12:42 pm
It is unfortunate for Senator Obama that John Edwards did run against him even if Edwards endorses him. At this point in time that is aftersight. There was an interesting argument that Uncommitted delegates voted against Hillary Clinton. The exit polls indicate some exit pollers voted against Barack Obama as well. I also agree that Iowa and New Hampshire should be stripped of there vestments. Iowa and New Hampshire disenfranchise all of the other states. I live in Texas and am not impressed why it is a red state. I have a life long record of voting Democrat and have felt my votes has always counted more for the time I voted for Bill Clinton in the presidential election, even as George Bush had won the governorship of my home state.
It is true that all of the other nominees ran against Barack Obama as well. I think they should all be involved in the next Democratic adminstration. I especially believe Senator Hillary Clinton and Obama should head the ticket. I have not forgotten about these other great players like Dennis Kucinich that I could not vote for in lieu of Clinton. Him and the others actually add to the power of the ticket at this point.
May 31st, 2008 at 12:49 pm
I have never been as embarrassed of my party than I am today. C-SPAN is a circus. Jim Blanchard should be ashamed of the spectacle he is causing.
May 31st, 2008 at 12:49 pm
John Edwards did run against Senator Obama. The fact that Edwards endorses Obama at this point is moot. That is aftersight.
There was an interesting argument that Uncommitted delegates voted against Hillary Clinton. The exit polls indicate some exit pollers voted against Barack Obama as well. However Obama does desserve his due, but not the entire uncommitted.
I also agree that Iowa and New Hampshire should be stripped of there vestments. Iowa and New Hampshire disenfranchise all of the other states. I live in Texas and am not impressed why it is a red state. I have a life long record of voting Democrat and have felt my votes has always counted more for the time I voted for Bill Clinton in the presidential election, even as George Bush had won the governorship of my home state.
It is true that all of the other nominees ran against Barack Obama as well. I think they should all be involved in the next Democratic adminstration. I especially believe Senator Hillary Clinton and Obama should head the ticket. I have not forgotten about these other great players like Dennis Kucinich that I could not vote for in lieu of Clinton. All of the others add to the power of the ticket.
I hope that I can count on the Democratic party. The Texas Democratic Party will be next week in Austin,TX.
May 31st, 2008 at 12:50 pm
If the party leaders in MI and FL had not disobeyed the rules, we wouldn’t have had this problem. Since not seating any delegates at all is clearly not an option, and it is too late to run elections in those states over again (which would have been the fairest thing), let each state have half its delegates, awarding this smaller amount in proportion to the votes. If the voters of those states want to be angry at someone, how about being angry at their own party leaders?
Since Sen. Obama’s name was not on the ballot (because he and John Edwards abided by the wishes of the DNC) he shouldn’t have any of those delegates. Of course, this isn’t fair, but it wasn’t fair to the voters of MI and FL for their parties to make up their own rules either. But honestly….Obama doesn’t really need the votes, does he? No, unless Clinton manages to push the whole issue to the courts, which would be a total disaster for the Democratic party.
If Clinton had been in the lead this whole time, she would never have made a big deal about MI and FL. She is desperate, and she will do anything to win, even attempting to cheat the system. She might say she cares about the people and cares about having their voices heard, but does she really? Or is she just using them, stepping on their heads like rungs on a ladder in her attempt to gain power?
May 31st, 2008 at 1:37 pm
Dean’s comments above accurately reflect Sen. Clinton’s various changes in positions on the issue of the counting of the Florida and Michigan primary results, so I will not repeat them here. But, I want to highlight the undeniable conclusion of her changes in positions: They clearly demonstrate her inability to uphold the rule of law (a pillar of a democracy and of our nation, in particular) - when it’s not in her self-interest. That may be acceptable when she is acting as someone’s attorney - I guess. But it is NOT acceptable for a person aspiring to be the President of the United States! As Chief Executive Officer of the country, one of the President’s primary responsibilities is upholding the country’s laws.
It is hard enough to understand why we are even debating Sen. Clinton’s current position (given prior statements regarding the weight that would be given the Flda. and Mich. primary results), but how we can ever trust a person who so blatantly recants on her word and (2) takes such intellectually dishonest positions (e.g., “every vote should count” but NOT when they are cast in caucuses, or write-ins) is simply beyond me.
What Sen. Clinton and her supporters clearly do not understand is that it is this lack of honesty and moral relativity which plagued the “Clinton years” that sickened the majority of the American public. We do NOT want a repeat of those years of contention, scandal, lack of morality, and intellectual dishonesty!
As a 50+ year-old professional woman, I want to say to Sen. Clinton that she is harming the Democratic party, harming the Democrats’ chance to win the presidency this year, unnecessarily causing us to waste valuable time, and draining our energy and enthusiasm. I am sickened by this. I wish she would do the right thing and bow out of the race now. This would not be the end of her aspirations and dreams; she can always run again in the future with the lessons learned this time around. But, for now, it’s time to quit.
May 31st, 2008 at 1:43 pm
It seems pretty obvious that Hillary never intended to play by the rules, She comes from a Means Justifies the Ends administration. People who because they see themselves as good feel rules don’t need to apply to them, like the person I gave a speeding ticket to (50 in a 30 zone) the day after she stopped me to complain about people speeding past her house ( right where I caught her). I suspect that a large portion of Hillary supporters have a similar view point. I have no problem with people who for the sake of others will challenge the rules or partake in civil disobedience, but Clinton is not doing this for Michigan of Florida voters. She is doing it for herself and perhaps because she thinks she is the only one who deserves the presidency.I am sure she has justified this whole mess as standing up for the voters ( only the ones who support her though).
May 31st, 2008 at 1:45 pm
I have just finished watch the DNC Committee meeting and did not hear anything to cause me to change my mind. I am a resident of Florida and it is my firm belief that the blame for this has nothing to do with the DNC and everything to do with the elected leadership of Florida from both parties. Let us remember, John Kerry was the presumed nominee in 2004 rendering the Florida primary useless in determination. The leadership of Florida did not want a repeat, so the moved the primary up to ensure that Florida would have a better role in determining the nominee. However, their decision came at a high price, the loss of their delegates by violating the calendar as set by the DNC.
The candidates agreed not to campaign in Florida and no heated debate was brought by any of our elected leaders to protect the votes of Floridians. However, now that the coronated canditate of 2007 (Clinton) is now losing, the elected officials are now fighting to change the rules at the 11th hour so that Clinton can benefit.
Further, I was disgusted by the presentation of Senator Joiner who was billed as the “Presenter for the Clinton Campaign.” One small problem, she never once mentioned the name of Hillary Clinton, not in her prepared statement or in response to any questions. Neither did any committee member ask her the postion of the Clinton Campaign, which was the reason she was before the committee.
It also appeared the committee already has its mind made up in the tone of the questions asked of each presenter. If you paid close attention to the questions, each presenter was asked if they would accept a decision based on the challenge presented, which is a 50% reduction. However, I did enjoy the question about how that 50% should be applied, either before the primary, which would realign the delegates of based up the results. Personally, I believe if it is to be fair, it should be applied first, then the result of the vote applied to the realignment, which would be in line with the spirit of the charter and its punishment for violation.
Having said all that, I would be satisifed if no delegates were awarded to either state, and allow the voters to deal with it by themselves at the next state elections.
May 31st, 2008 at 1:48 pm
People in these states are not going to “have their vote taken away” in any way. If these states had SUCH and issue with moving their primary’s up (which clearly broke the rules) they should have made a statement and boycotted the primary. They didn’t the just voted and allowed their state governments to go ahead and break the rules. Now these two are claiming that their voice won’t be heard.
Its an outrage that these 2 states think they are special and can run their primary’s any way THEY see fit. If the republican party wanted to create chaos, they have acheived their goal. We should come to a decision quickly and back our Democratic leaders and their decision to unify the party.
May 31st, 2008 at 1:52 pm
I don’t think Obama would’ve done the same thing had he fallen behind like Clinton is now. Why? History has shown that Obama likes following and respecting the rules.
Now, there is one thing that ticks me off about some people. There are people out there that say Obama is inexperienced and doesn’t know how to manage. Umm… if that was the case, Clinton wouldn’t be in a $30 Million dept for her camp and she wouldn’t have fallen behind Obama and she would’ve respectfully followed the rules like a real Democrat.
In my opinion, both candidates are the same to me in terms of how they like to run the government. Therefore, I have to base my vote on who can manage more effectively. Considering that, and after seeing how Obama has kept a close race as well as gaining a ton of money from just regular people like you and me [no lobbyists since he hates them] and after seeing how Clinton is in debt and has been trying to manipulate the results by suggesting that the causcases not be counted and how she hasn’t won the majority of the states like Obama did and how her view that one state is more important than another [I hate that view], I have to vote for Obama.
You can criticise me if you want for all I care, but my decision is clearly based on logical reasoning. But to be honest with you, I don’t really care which Democrat wins the nomination just as long as it’s a Democrat. Because I am tired of Bush’s policies and that of the Republicans. Considering that, I will vote for Clinton even if Obama doesn’t win.
This country has been missmanaged by the right-wing nut jobs who couldn’t pass elementary-level math even if their lives depended on it. As a result, our economy has faultered, the dollar as fallen faster than Britney Spears’ career, jobs are being lost because they’re being outsourced to countries like China and India, we are in two wars [one of them was never authorized and has backfired], over 4,000 US troops have died for a pointless cause because of the nut jobs, and healthcare has hit rock bottom. And to make matters worse, the aviation industry and most truckers [who provide critical supplies to parts of our country] can barely afford to work because of rising gas prices. And this because our current vise president owns an oil company and has over dozens of oil-company-based friends who are raping us Americans through our wallets.
Therefore, the last thing we need is another republican whose views matches that of Bush and has admitted that he is willing to keep the war going for another 100 years while also admitting that he knows nothing about the economy and that he “thinks” that the economy is not that bad. Considering this, I would rather vote for Clinton over McCain should Obama lose the nomination.
You know, now that you guys mentioned what you said and considering what I have seen in the past 8 years, I don’t care about the outcome of the FL-MI debate. Just get it over with so that we can get a Democrat in office.
May 31st, 2008 at 1:54 pm
Great post Jessy!!! I agree!!!!
Let’s move this decision, this party, and this country forward.
May 31st, 2008 at 2:01 pm
so the DEMOCRATS did introduce this into the bill…so much for Clinton’s argument that it was all the fault of the Republicans.
HUME: Can I stop you there? Just let me stop you there for a second, if I can.
WASSERMAN-SCHULTZ: Sure.
HUME: In the Florida state senate, who introduced the bill to move the primary forward?
WASSERMAN-SCHULTZ: The bill was introduced by a Democratic member, a new Democratic member of the state senate.
HUME: And in the legislature, senate and house as well, how many Democrats voted against it?
WASSERMAN-SCHULTZ: Well, that’s an inappropriate line of questioning, Brit, because that bill ultimately…
HUME: Well, wait a minute. Well, inappropriate or not…
WASSERMAN-SCHULTZ: Excuse me, Brit.
HUME: … could you just answer the question?
WASSERMAN-SCHULTZ: Can I answer your question?
HUME: Yes. How many?
WASSERMAN-SCHULTZ: I would like to answer your question without you asking me another one, if you don’t mind.
The legislation that was originally sponsored was amended into an overall election package that included the major provision to ensure that we could have manual recount and a paper trail. So this is a major election package that the change of a date in our primary was included in.
So the vote total was unanimous, but that was because there’s no one in the Florida legislature that was going to vote against changing our voting system so that you could have a paper trail and make sure that every vote can be counted, unlike our touchscreen voting system right now which doesn’t allow for that.
May 31st, 2008 at 2:18 pm
The Clinton name has historically done well in retired communities, Jewish communities, hispanic communities and unionized, blue-collar communities.
All these demographics suggest that Hillary would have won over Obama had Florida and Michigan kept to their original election dates.
Hillary should be the presumptive nominee.
!!!GO HILLARY!!!
May 31st, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Well said, Jessy. I too, am sick of this ridiculous debate. Seat the delegates, in whichever fashion. Give us a Democratic nominee. And to all you naysayers, be you Obama or Clinton supporters, accept that decision and VOTE DEMOCRATIC this fall. We cannot afford another four years of Republican rule.
May 31st, 2008 at 3:07 pm
Florida and Michigan in reality did not hold an election. The people were told their vote was NULL. Look up the meaning of NULL. I say seat them at the convention, and chalk this one up to experience. Let the delegates be the only vote taken into account here …because realistically speaking the popular vote never happened anyway. I would have voted for Kucinich if my vote were to have counted, but I was told the votes DID NOT Count. Now..suddenly they do? What’s evenhanded about this?
May 31st, 2008 at 3:07 pm
I am a Hillary supporter, but I agree that not all of the votes should count as is, particularly in MI which had write-in ballots that could not be counted. However, to divide the votes 50/50 is not representative of the people that did vote and they should not be punished for their party leaders bad judgments and decisions. Furthermore, I disagree with the argument that only Hillary wants to suit the rules to fit her needs. Obama was never in favor of counting the votes of those two states because he did poorly for whatever reason one can come up with. Moreover, he nows supports seating the delegates 50/50 in MI and FL which is also against the rules all of you Obama supporters are so in favor of. Despite the rules, however, we need to uphold the will of the people of these two states in some way in order to better our chances of winning them in the general election. Like former Gov. Blanchard said, we cannot take anything for granted. We need to make the people of FL and MI feel apart of the process to aleviate any negative feelings this mess of a primary season has brought about.
May 31st, 2008 at 3:18 pm
I’d like to take another spin on this that I haven’t seen anyone take. I’m an Obama supporter that believes Clinton should get exactly what she wants. How about this: Let Clinton and Obama have their voted-on proportion of delegates in Florida (Clinton thus wins the Florida). Let Clinton have her proportion of delegates in Michigan, and Obama have the rest (Clinton wins Michigan too). See a pattern here? Hillary gets exactly what she wants. This is the only way to unify the party, because Clinton supporters are so incredibly rigid in their support that if there is any iota of not getting what they want, they’ll cry “unfair” and, to their own detriment, go to McCain–who is ironically, fundamentally the opposite of Clinton in terms of policy.
But here’s the rub. Obama, on the other hand, is relatively a carbon copy of Clinton on policies. So what will actually end up happening, is that Clinton will still lose anyway because superdelegates will continue to go to Obama (he’ll need a very small amount to win, while Clinton would need a lot–even after getting her own way described above). If this happens, Clinton supporters won’t have a reason to cry–no pun intended–and will follow Clinton herself in campaigning for Obama for the presidency.
May 31st, 2008 at 3:20 pm
Where was this amount of attention and action when it was originally annonunced that Florida and Michigan votes would not be counted? The rules need to be changed for the Clintons when they do not like the results of today. I do not see this amount of effort if Clinton was ahead like she thought she would be. Hypocrite? I think so…The rules were agreed by all and all were in agreement…somewhere along the line, the Clintons decided to put a twist to this after needing Florida and Michigan’s votes. Shame on them for causing dissention throughout the party!!!
May 31st, 2008 at 4:45 pm
I am not voting in November since my full vote doesn’t count in the Primary. The DNC’s rules are not fair to Florida voters.
May 31st, 2008 at 5:07 pm
What a joke…Obomba our new wave of politician??? No one plays old politics like this guy and his bellyslinkers. America is not a democracy when THE PEOPLE’S votes were CHANGED! If they had wanted to vote for Obomba…they would have written him in. After all he’s the one with all the literate people behind him, the rest of us - well…we just live here.
HILLARY 2012 … don’t let this person have the secrets of our country - he keeps pretty shady friends.
BTW…how many of you actually know what a caucus is??? Well, in your big ‘ol state just think of one meeting place, how many of you would attend???
May 31st, 2008 at 5:08 pm
I am a new floridian and I am disgusted and cannot believe in what I am seeing and hearing. The way the DNC voted on the Florida issue is not going to unite the party but destroy it. I know that we cannot support this decision and would rather vote republican in the presidential election, then selling our home and leaving the United States in protest. We are NOT the only ones that are thinking of doing this. You have robbed us of our voice, we only have half a voice, which is not loud enough to be even heard, no one is able to hear a political whisper. For shame!
May 31st, 2008 at 5:11 pm
I am a resident of Florida. I was informed that the Florida Primary was not going to count. If it did, I would have voted for Obama, but again, I was told it would not count, so I did not vote. Now they are counting Florida votes. I want to vote this coming November. Will my vote count then? It is a fact that overall, smarter folks are voting for Obama. Smarter folks would not vote in the Primary if told that it would not count. So Hilary has more votes in Florida, that didn’t count but now they do? What is happening to our right to vote and be counted? If they were going to change the ruling for FL and MI, then hold the Primary again for both states. I would bet Obama would now have more votes than Hillary. But instead we are giving Hillary validity for her votes her when the voters were told to stay home. Honestly, why would anyone vote if told it would not count? Would you pay for gas you weren’t allowed to put in your tank? This farce was only for the benefit of Hillary not Obama. I can’t wait until it is found to be a complete waste of time when President Obama is sworn in.
May 31st, 2008 at 5:24 pm
Smart folks vote when given the chance in hope our voices will be heard which is a RIGHT AS A US CITIZEN. Obviously Florida voters got the shaft again!
May 31st, 2008 at 5:43 pm
I can’t believe what I just witnessed from the DNC. I just had half of my vote taken away. In the United States of America…I just witnessed half of my vote taken away. I can’t believe it. I’m in shock. What a mess! What a mess this will cause. I will not vote for Barack Obama. I will not vote in this Presidential election. I still can’t believe it! It’s all about reverse discrimination. It’s here in full colors!
May 31st, 2008 at 6:00 pm
The DNC’s decision to seat Florida and Michigan delegates with only half a vote is a poor excuse for democracy. Who do they think they are? I’ve decided to stand by my fellow citizens in Florida and Michigan, and I encourage others to do the same. Come general election time I will cast 1/2 my vote for Obama, and 1/2 my vote for someone else. I know my vote won’t count, but that’s nothing new for democrats. Support Florida and Michigan!!! Vote Half and Half!!!!!
May 31st, 2008 at 6:04 pm
After just hearing the ruling for both FL and MI, I am relieved that the debate has been settled. I’m a Floridian and have always been a Floridian for the past 22 years. And even though the results were not what both camps wanted, especially that of Clinton’s, I’m just glad that the debate is over for now. However, I get the feeling that if Clinton takes this up with the Credentials Committee, that she might do more harm than good. But who am I to stop her? She has every right to do so. I just hope she doesn’t drag this debate all the way to the Convention.
I mean, the last time the Democrats had this problem was back when the Dems were running against Nixon [a Republican]. Nixon won the election because the Democrats couldn’t unite before the start of the convention. As a result, we ended up with an administration that performed illegal wiretaps and was the result of the Watergate scandal.
This is why I hope that all democrats unite before the convention and that Clinton doesn’t drag this annoying debate to the convention. The last thing this country needs right now is a “Bush v3.0″. If that happens, I’m moving out of this country and into Germany. I always wanted to ride my car at Autobaun speeds.
May 31st, 2008 at 6:16 pm
Okay, CNN and your Obama lovers. You think you have won against Hillary. This fight isn’t over. Obama will lose to John McCain because a very, very large number of Hillary voters will be leaving the Democratic party to vote for McCain. The party took away delegates from Hillary and gave them to Obama…..this thing was rigged from the start. It was nothing but a dog and pony show to try and save face. All this talk about unity, is just that, talk. Now they have to gall to ask we come together behind a person who isn’t qualified to be President because he is black. The civil rights war has been fought and won, now it is time for a civil rights war for women. We have just begun to fight. I watch in dismay - friends of Obama’s putting down Hillary and white people and you and your Obama lovers just sit there with a big smile on your face. You should be hanging your head in shame that you allow such trash talk on the air. So now he resigns, why, because he needs white votes? Too late. Obama has shown in many ways what he really thinks of white people. What happened - you all loved John McCain a few months ago and now he is your whipping boy??? I hope you understand that racism goes both ways. Blacks like those on the committee, your show and in Obama’s church are more racist than any white person that I know. God help America. We are in deep, deep trouble.
McCain is not my choice, but since the Democratic party left me, I’m leaving the party. It’s new name should be ONC - Obama National Committee. My vote along with all my family will be cast for John McCain and every Republican down ticket. Hope you are prepared to live with McCain for four years, then Hillary will return and get this country back in shape.
May 31st, 2008 at 6:18 pm
The resolution makes sense to me. Why would ANYBODY complain with a half vote at each pass? What are your arguments against this resolution? Where does it disenfranchise my vote for Obama or your vote for Clinton? Where?
May 31st, 2008 at 6:18 pm
First of all, Florida KNEW its’ votes weren’t going to be counted because they were breaking with party rules. (Welcome to a democracy, there are RULES) This break with party rules was known over a year before hand, i.e. you people had over a year to get your house in order and you did NOTHING!
If I went out and tried to vote today would my vote be counted? No. Why? THIS ISN’T A PROPER ELECTION DAY YOU IDIOTS!!!!!
And stop blaming the big bad GOP, the legislature that cost you all half your votes was put forth by a Democrat, and was voted for unanimously.
Now stop whining like a bunch of unruly spoiled brats and focus on the coming general election.
May 31st, 2008 at 6:22 pm
Why would a Hillary supporter vote for a McCain Supreme Court and a McCain congress and majority? I thought they were FOR women’s rights? As an Obama supporter, I WILL VOTE FOR HILLARY if she is on the ticket ..my children’s future depends on who sits on that SUPREME COURT.
May 31st, 2008 at 6:23 pm
JoGan, so you got your way and now expect everyone else to embrace you. Not a chance…You and Obama will lose the general simple because of the way the voters have been treated. Millions will be voting for John McCain, will that make you happy. When Obama loses, he can’t run again, remember the DNC does not give losers a second chance!
May 31st, 2008 at 6:45 pm
I do believe that even if all delegates were seated entirely for Hillary Clinton, excluding Obama and those who support him or did not have a chance to vote for him, or voted uncommitted ..If Obama wins the nomination, those who posted here they’d vote for McCain..are still going to vote for McCain. That threat is not a threat to this Democrat. I’m comfortable enough to know that this country has suffered too much because of Bush and will not be voting for McCain. We have to risk the rest of Bush’s term..and that will be detrimental enough..no one is going to give a Republican the Presidency for the next 4, unless they WANT what Republicans have to offer. There are those who want that, but it is limited to about 25-30% of the majority.
May 31st, 2008 at 7:01 pm
Have you guys lost your minds? Obama knew exactly what he was doing when he took his name off the ballot in Michigan. A reporter from Chicago gave a full report on how Obama is a “true policitian from Chicago”. He worked the system there and had his 5 opponents names removed from the system before the election was held so that he would not have an opponent! He ran un-opposed and of course he won. Obama plays dirty and has conned the DNC & Rules committee. If you think that ALL women will be voting for Obama, you certainly are wrong. We can take four years of John McCain, then Hillary can run again in 2012 and win. The DNC does not give losers a second chance, look at Gore & Kerry. There will be no party unity this time around after what has been done to Florida and Michigan. How can they even think it was fair to take delegates from Hillary and give them to Obama. The super-delegates if not up for re-election will be soon and all of Hillary’s supporters will remember them and see that they are removed from their perch!
GO MCCAIN - of course you will have to fight the bias media that has now turned on you for their choice - Obama. FIGHT BACK STRONG AND HARD, SHOW THEM YOU WON’T GO DOWN WITHOUT A FIGHT!
May 31st, 2008 at 7:08 pm
what the dnc did today is a travesty. i just resigned from the democratic party. this is all pretty disgusting that american voters count for one-half. shoot those in power not those that went to the polls. i feel sick…this is gore vs. bush all over again, except our own dem brothers and sisters screwed us all.
May 31st, 2008 at 7:12 pm
Those who are caught within the left/right spider web are lambs to the slaughter. Once you realize that there is no difference between any on these criminals. They are all owned by the same people. DO YOUR RESEARCH! Mainstream media lies and keeps the American people in the dark.
Ron Paul 08!!
God Bless America!!!!
May 31st, 2008 at 7:19 pm
Jan. Well said. Regardless of how the resolution on Fl and Michigan went, you would have never voted for Obama anyways in the general election. That’s fine, to each his own. But if the democrats lose this year, what makes you think people would be voted for Clinton in 2012 after all the trouble she has caused. She has shown her true colors and have turned off a lot of people. It’s time to think about the country instead of a single person.
May 31st, 2008 at 7:22 pm
Ron Paul is conservatively right. McCain is just a tool of Big Business. Democrats have always been party of the people, and Republicans party of bankers. It’s labor vs management..capital vs producers..etc. There is nothing else at stake..except trying to keep the rights we had to fight and die for, that we will again have to fight and die for..because we elected people who would give them away. I think the constitution should be an issue..and the only reason it’s not an issue with the only candidates with a chance of winning..is because it’s an obstacle to their agenda. Trouble with Paul and Nader and Barr. is they are not a choice. It’s like wanting a boy when the ultrasound says you’ve got a girl. You still will have a baby, might as well make everything work for the choice you have. A boy isn’t in the picture. Ron Paul is not in the picture. not this year.
May 31st, 2008 at 7:31 pm
I dont understand the problem first the Clinton supporters are mad that fl and mi didnt get seated at all. Now the DNC not only seats them but seats them in favor for Hillary Clinton. But i guess now the clinton supporters are upset because it didnt change the outcome of the election? We’ll the DNC has come up with a compromise and at the end of the day thats all they could do. Hillary will oneday hopefully come to the reality that although she fought hard she is no longer the possible democratic nominee. and i would hope that she and her supporters whether for or against Obama will stop being divisive and either show support or dont but be respectful of our 2008 democratic nominee
May 31st, 2008 at 7:58 pm
There they go again! Rewarding people for doing the wrong thing! If I was a company that knew dumping toxic waste was against the rules and was fined for it. then I went back and picked up the canisters I dropped in the ground, do you think the fine would be removed? NO!! This is no different! Michigan and Florida knew the rules and decided to change the primary date anyway! They made their bed and so they have to lie in it! This is just another desperate move by The Clintons (and yes, they are both running for President even though Hillary’s name is the only one on the ticket) to steal the nomination!
This part is for Jeanne. If you want to talk about room for manipulation, let’s talk about Harlem! There were several precincts listed in Harlem that showed Hillary winning 100% of the vote. No where else in the country has that happened, so please explain how that could have occurred!
May 31st, 2008 at 7:59 pm
This entire proces stinks of a fix !!! I cannot understand for thje life of me how after almost 300 years of voting, our political process still can’t get it right… Think of all the problems in the last few elections and now this… Sad part it always comes down to someone or a select few that get to decide on the outcome that affects the entire voting process and the entire election throught the country… It is sad and I am ashamed to even be a part of the election process… We may as well becme a dictatorship… This is totally disgusting and I am totally disgusted at the entire process. I am seriously considering never voting again… If Hillary doesn’t get the nomination due to this I will write her in as my choice for President… And I promise you I will never vote again… This is as un-American as it can get… Horrible, Horrendous those people that decided this have nothing but their own agendas… They should have pu the question on the voting ballot for one of the other Primaries uf they needed a better insight
in order to meke an informed decision… That would be fairer… Here’s something else to think about… We should bring the voting age back to 21… It is quite obviousthat the 18, 19 & 20 year olds are still not capable of good judgement nor do have they acquired enough knowledge to make educated decisions concerning elections and selections of candidates that will run this country… I don’t know what else to say… Next step back to the Queen our forefathers must be rolling over in their graves… To think of all the lives that have been lost in order to preserve this process, and lives still being lost due to the last few elections… Well fellow Americans you messed up another election process I hope your Happy and I think you will get exactly what you ask for…
Pray For & God Save America… It was once a great place to live… Our politicians have turned The Great American Dream into The Great American Nightmare >>>
May 31st, 2008 at 8:30 pm
UNA says(The Clinton name has historically done well in retired communities, Jewish communities, hispanic communities and unionized, blue-collar communities.All these demographics suggest that Hillary would have won over Obama had Florida and Michigan kept to their original election dates.Hillary should be the presumptive nominee.!!!GO HILLARY!!!
If this is the case, Why is she losing the rest of the Country?!..FL and MI voted for the leaders, let them suffer!!, next time vote for someone who cares about your STATE!!!
May 31st, 2008 at 8:37 pm
I have read all the blogs and I ask everyone what is a fair solution for everyone involved (Michigan and Voters, Michigan and Florida Non Voters)? It concerns me that democrates are willing to vote for McCain. Obama and Clinton has a very similar platform.
If Obama does not get elected due to poor turnout or folks crossing over to the other side what do you think will happen in 2012 if Hillary becomes the nominee? Obama supports are going to do the same thing to Hillary. Meanwhile McCain will be in the White House for 8 years. The Republican Party is having a GREAT TIME laughing at us.
This is the year to get a Democrat in the White House. Do what is best for our children’s future.
I have only followed politics for a short time and this is very depressing seeing our party fight each other like kids. I see why folks do not vote.
May 31st, 2008 at 9:03 pm
So, every vote doesn’t count in the democrat party? They could have atleast counted them as 3/5 votes like they did in the old days. I am sure Grand Wizard Senator Byrd can educate the dems on how that works.
So, what he have now are half citizens in Florida and Michigan on the democrat side. We repubs will take any of you who want to be in a party that values your vote. Visit us below to see how you can join the ranks! Holla!
http://www.rnc.org
May 31st, 2008 at 9:11 pm
I am an independent voter, and I am appalled by the number of people who call themselves Democrats, yet threaten to vote for McCain if Obama gets the nomination. If you are willing to vote for someone whose postitions are opposite those of the party you profess to support, then you are just as bad as the Republicans who were reported to vote for Hillary in the primary because they think she will be easier for McCain to beat in November.
As far as the ruling for MI and FL, this is a joke. Number one, people don’t have “the right” to vote in a primary. The primaries (and caucuses) are held by the individual parties, and not the government; therefore, the voters in MI and FL have not been disenfranchised. That being said, I would be upset that my vote would not be counted, and would have taken it up with the state party before the primary. I know people did not vote because the DNC said the votes would not count; how are their votes supposed to be represented? This leads to something that I, as an educator, feel to be the most important aspect of this debacle- how am I supposed to stand in front of a classroom and tell my students they need to follow rules when this is an obvious example of people (the states’ Democratic parties) not following the rules, and the threatened consequences not being carried out?
May 31st, 2008 at 9:19 pm
*sigh*
So much for simple logic. It seems to me that people are willing to gamble our entire fragile future on a candidate whose opinions are contrary to that of their favorite candidate. I just don’t understand this.
To all of you people out there who will vote for McCain if your Democratic candidate isn’t the nominee [I don't if you're an Obama or Clinton supporter], is it really hard to open your eyes and see that your second choice for president [aka McBush] will most likely result in America collapsing? I can’t believe this!!
Like I said earilier: If McCain [Bush v3.0] wins the presidency, expect to see me pack my bags and head to Germany. Fresh German beer, here I come!
May 31st, 2008 at 9:24 pm
PS: Anyone want to join me in my trip?
May 31st, 2008 at 9:48 pm
To Florida and Michigan Clinton supporters be thankful you received a half vote. Something is better than nothing. I am personally disappointed and is considering leaving the Democrat Party and going Independent because today I witnessed the DNC not honoring the rules. Rules are rules and should not be changed if agreed by all parties. Can I now change the rules of the playoff because my basketball team did not make it to the playoffs? For all the Florida and Michigan Clinton supporters before the meeting today you were not seated. Be grateful Hillary received most of the delegates and you are now seated. If the rules were carried out as they should have been, you would have not received votes.
To Jan - Oklahoma: “All this talk about unity, is just that, talk. Now they have to gall to ask we come together behind a person who isn’t qualified to be President because he is black…. Blacks like those on the committee, your show and in Obama’s church are more racist than any white person that I know. God help America. We are in deep, deep trouble.”
It is comments like these that we Obama supporters fight to change. When did the color of one’s skin make them less or more qualified than another? Also you statement of God help America, we are in deep deep trouble could not be further from the truth if people feel as you.
Since, I think you used the term racist incorrectly here is the definition according the Merriam-Webster dictionary: 1) a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race; 2) racial prejudice or discrimination.
May 31st, 2008 at 9:53 pm
Just like Tyler, I’ll become an Independent if Clinton wins the nomination… then I’ll move to Germany. ^_^
For some reason, I seem to like Germany. Hmm… must be their beer.
June 1st, 2008 at 12:02 am
Harold Ickes was right! The DNC has cancelled out the voters and undermined democracy. I urge Clinton supporters to either vote for McCain, or stay at home in November. We should also vote the delegates who backed Obama out of office.
June 1st, 2008 at 4:22 am
The Obama Campaign side, media and people with poor spirit wants Hillary Clinton give up and she still winning primaries. What wrong to continue to the end of the process? Is this the spirit of Americans give up and not fight for something you believe???? Of course, if she step down as the rival campaing wish then she, as a woman, shows incapacity to no only fight for her believe even for the America nation!
Can someone understand the Hillary Clinton as a real leader in this country who are winning the popular vote? Millios of americans still voting for her in primaries, then, who is more important to get the people President in the general election on November 4, 2008: the Democrat party superdelegates or the people vote? Have the DNC thinking how big damage they cause to the own party doing discrimination rules?
In my concern, Democrat Party, Howard Dean and the super delegates to support this incredible rules who hurt the democrats members, NEVER will get united the party again and confront serious desertion since now.
The republican party play more intelligent, we have see when pick up the nominee early, ruling about FL and MI early, too and then supporting Obama in the red states as independents (Obama never will get those votes in general election) vote to dividing the democrat party and create this internal controversy and damage the oponent party; they get the DEAL and openning the big oportunity to McCain to gets the White House! This is my view.
June 1st, 2008 at 4:38 am
I think this country need a new party with different vision and intelligent leadership, with capacity to understand the people message. The BUREACRACY in the Democrat Party shows that in this country doesn’t exist the real Democracy because the person vote is subject to leader rule! This is the America Democracy? Something have to be review in this process or definitely we need a NEW PARTY that could represent the people decision.
June 1st, 2008 at 5:12 am
I live in Missouri, we follow rules. Florida should consider themselves lucky they got half. If it were up to me Michigan and Florida would have no votes since they DIDN’T follow the rules. The rules were published and both states were warned. They did it anyway.
I used to have a lot of respect for the Clintons, but after the way that Hillary has behaved, I consider them nothing but red democrats. We already have a shyster in the White House and we don’t need his sister.
June 1st, 2008 at 7:20 am
I am a registered Republican in a rural republican county in upstate New York. Yes for those of you who don’t know, republicans do exist in the state of NY. Anyway, I am still undecided on who I want to vote for this November and before last night I could have swung either way between any of the remaining candidates. However, last night Hillary Clinton helped to knock her name off my list. I firmly believe that the state primary schedule is flawed, but no matter how you approach altering that schedule, someone will be unhappy. Even though I am replublican New Yorker, if Michigan and Florida were to receive no punishment after attempting to change this set order without the prior approval of the DNC, I would be upset. They understood the consiquences and just like our elected President, these party officials represent the well being of the democratic party within that state. I didn’t want to go to war in Iraq, but we all know how that turned out. Oh yeah Hillary voted us into war. Funny how this thing called democracy works… Well, all people in Florida and Michigan didn’t want to change the date of their primary. But the officials did so and they have to live with that. Besides, what does this really come down to? They way it looks to me is that Clinton is clinging on to her last chance and this really isn’t about the voters. If it was about the voters and her partys well being she would have seen the writing on the wall a long time ago and would have bowed out. For the democratic party to just go ahead and change it’s ruling after today on the sole basis of favoring the 2nd place democratic candidite’s ability to be still in this race is absolutely insane. Her arguement has no merit on the basis of right and wrong. It’s just dirty politics as usual and she is trying to steel the election. GO AWAY HILLARY…
June 1st, 2008 at 7:59 am
Hillary Clinton should not consider herself a democrat. What kind of a democrat can make other democrats want to vote for a republican or independent instead of an actual democrat (Obama)?
She needs to stop crying about losing and drop out, for the good of the whole party. She lost, he won. Get over it. I’m a white college educated female, and I still don’t want Clinton in the White House. Yes, I would love to see a woman as president one day, but Clinton is NOT who we want. I’m acting more mature about this situation than she is. Michigan and Florida should be divided 50/50. If the citizens have concerns, they need to take it up with the republicans who supposedly moved the vote earlier, or their elected leaders. Or, maybe in the end we should all thank Hillary Clinton, she’s already got all of his “skeletons” out of his closet, and yet McCain is almost untouched. The US needs a democrat in office to thrive, republicans have ruined America with their out-of-date ideals.
June 1st, 2008 at 8:15 am
Perhaps the next candidate that wants to win should push all of the primaries and caucuses ahead of the schedule, go campaign, and then cry and whine about being a democracy and we need to count all the votes as they were voted (which was not following the DNC). Then they might win.
June 1st, 2008 at 8:29 am
I see that many so-called Democrats are saying they will vote Republican after the DNC decision, because they only have half a vote.
Do any of you realize that the RNC *also* punished FL and MI by giving their delegates half a vote? Look it up.
I cannot believe the childish temper tantrums being thrown…
June 1st, 2008 at 8:35 pm
Exceptional, I congradulate you. In fact, you, me, my brother, and my girlfriend seem to have one major thing in common. We don’t let favoratism get in the way of what’s really important for our country. We shouldn’t be basing our vote on the color of one man’s skin nor on the gender of a woman. Not only that, we shouldn’t be voting for someone whose opinions don’t bold well with ours if our candidate is not the nominee. And to top it all off, we shouldn’t be breaking the rules in the first place. To break the rules would mean anarchy.
I’m a Floridian, I voted for Obama, my vote counts as half. Am I angry about it? No. Because rules are rules. In addition, I will not feel any different had I voted for Clinton after seeing her methods of trying to manipulate the system in her favor in recent months.
Again, we should all put this behind us, forget the past, unite with a common cause, and then make sure that the Republicans NEVER again win the White House because this country needs more help than us Floridians.
A true Democrat always does the following:
1. Follow the rules.
2. Put the needs of the country before anything else [including their emotions].
3. Stay united, not devided.
4. Last, but not least, clean up the mess left behind by the Republicans.
September 19th, 2008 at 5:52 am
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